Tyler Dewar: How did your visit to the United States last year go for you? Is there anything in particular that stands out in your memory from the trip?
His Holiness Karmapa: It went very well. For myself and others, the entire visit was filled with joy, and all of the visit's activities were accomplished smoothly. I still remember everything that happened during the visit very clearly, and so there isn't any one particular event that stands out in my memory.
TD: During your trip to the United States, you had your first direct introduction to the Western world and American culture. Even though this time was brief, I think that Bodhi readers would be very interested to hear about your observations of American culture. In particular, what are some key differences you perceive in the psychologies of people who live in Asia compared to people who live in the United States or in the West in general?
HHK: My trip to America was only two weeks long, and my schedule during this time was very full. I didn't really have a good opportunity to relax with people to the extent that I could make observations from my experience about psychology and so on. Nevertheless, I feel that, in terms of their basic character, Western people are no different from Asian peoples in terms of their basic outlook toward life and their ways of thinking. There are some differences between Eastern and Western peoples when it comes to the methods that they join with their views, and this can create the appearance of a difference in fundamental psychology. But actually, in terms of people's basic nature, I do not believe there is any real difference.
TD: You are obviously very passionate about protecting the environment. And, for Buddhists, this also makes sense: just as the human body is a precious support for practicing the dharma, the world is a precious support that needs to be cherished and protected. I think a lot of people in America realize that a big part of protecting the environment is the political aspect, because the laws that governments make have a great impact on the health of the planet. However, for Buddhists, this becomes an interesting situation. Some Buddhists have a certain skepticism toward politics, partly because the political world tends to be filled with ego-clinging and high-speed discursiveness. Would you encourage Buddhists to engage in political life, or political discourse and activity, for the benefit of the environment? What is the best type of activity that Buddhists can engage in to protect the future of the world?
HHK: It is of course good to take up the issue of the environment in the political realm in order to bring about good results. However, I don't see the effort of saving the environment as one that is inherently political, or one that necessarily involves the need to prevail in a debate. I feel inclined to work with people who are of the same mind about the environment, to pool our energy of body, speech, and mind, devoting as much of it as possible to benefiting the environment. We can also work together to provide more information about the environment to others. If we can offer information in this way, more and more people will naturally come to agree with us. I see this approach to be one that is genuine and very beneficial.
TD: It is clear that we live now in an era where there are many technological developments happening, particularly with regard to the way people communicate with each other. We have mobile smart phones, social networking websites, blogs, and perhaps a bit of anxiousness about how others respond to us in these venues. There is a lot of information bouncing around in our day-to-day lives. Some practitioners feel this to be too much information, but, at the same time, these new ways of communicating don't seem to be fading away. It seems like they are going to be a part of our lives as we move into the future. What is your view of the evolution of communications technologies in relationship to the lifestyles of dharma practitioners? What advice would you give dharma practitioners who might be struggling with the balance between engaging with all of this information and the meditation cushion?
HHK: With the Internet and other technologies, we certainly live in the midst of an information-heavy era. We can receive a lot of information in very short periods of time. For dharma practitioners, the most important thing is to examine the changes in our body, speech, and mind that occur when we receive these chunks of information, and to discern whether the way we are responding is helpful to us.
In the past, most of the information we received throughout the day was more or less directly related to our own experience, things we were perceiving in an immediate sense. These days, much of the information we engage with throughout the day is not directly related to our own experience, but we still invest a lot of our energy in it, and we see that it changes the state of our mind. For practitioners, it is important to nevertheless intentionally relax our minds and make sure that our minds have a chance to take their own seat of stability.
TD: In the same vein, these days, for people all over the world, there seem to be more and more things to do and less time to do those things. Surely this is true of Your Holiness as well. This is a difficult situation for everyone, but it is particularly poignant for practitioners, who are faced with the challenge of finding some time to do at least a little bit of formal meditation practice. For people who only have a few minutes per day to devote to formal practice, what would you say is the best way to use that time?
HHK: Really, meditation is something that we need to have a chance to become familiar with. It is important for our meditation to be consistent, and for us to practice in short, yet repeated, sessions. However, we often do not have time to do this. In the same way, it is difficult for us to find time to do activities such as study and contemplation.
In my opinion, a good practice to do when we do not have much time to practice is to select a chant that we find especially powerful. As we chant or sing the words, we can rest our attention on them and try to thoroughly relax our minds. I think this would be beneficial, because this is a way of relying on just a few words that nonetheless carry a lot of energy. I think this will have a special efficaciousness in terms of relaxing our minds and encouraging them in the direction of the dharma.
When we have a little bit more time, we can use that for more extended meditation sessions and for study and contemplation. But, if we only have ten or fifteen minutes, it would be difficult for us to study, and it would be perhaps even more difficult to sink into an extensive session of meditation.
TD: During recent teachings that you gave at the American Embassy School in Delhi [in mid-September, 2009], you spoke eloquently about the need for practitioners to recognize that, before we are practitioners, we are human beings and members of families, and that, if our family is not harmonious, it will be virtually impossible for us to have a fruitful practice. Could you please talk about this principle for the readers of Bodhi? In particular, is it also important for us to recognize that, before we are practitioners, we are members of a sangha? How is sangha similar to the way you spoke about family?
HHK: "Sangha" means "to come together," and it can also mean "to be harmonious." In the context of the members of a dharma center forming a sangha, being harmonious means that the members of the community are harmonious with regard to virtue. When the sangha comes together, it comes together for the sake of the dharma, for the sake of virtue. For this reason, it is important that the connections between members of the sangha are also harmonious and virtuous.
There are also personal relations between sangha members, or relations that are influenced by the personalities of the individuals. These are a somewhat different situation, because, above and beyond the interplay between personalities, there is a connection of sangha that exists between any two members of the community. Most of the time we spend with the people in our sangha is related to the sangha connection with those people, not to the person-to-person connection necessarily.
It is important for us to recognize the nature of this connection. We need to ensure that our common aspiration toward virtue comes to fore of our relationships with sangha members. It is not sufficient merely to recognize that we are the same as our fellow sangha members in terms of being dharma practitioners or aspirants toward virtue. We should also ensure that our desires to transform our negative emotions and rely upon constructive methods for doing that are in agreement with each other.
For example, if two sangha members are in the same family, and if one of them becomes very angry while the other one reacts in turn with aversion toward the anger of the other, this is not a harmonious situation. So having harmonious desires, and helping each other, is important. We should take the attitude, "We all want to transform anger, and we can help each other to do that. We can work on transforming aggression together." If the members of the community help each other in transforming emotions and practicing the dharma, they will be living up to the true meaning of sangha.
I sometimes have the experience that we can set out with the motivation to transform a negative emotion, but it is difficult to go beyond that initial wish and actually invoke the attitude that we need in order to make transformation happen. It is difficult to recollect that resolve all by ourselves. At that time, we can be greatly benefited by some type of external condition that inspires us or encourages us to bring the antidote that we wish to connect with directly into our experience. Often, among the best of these external conditions are our teachers and our dharma friends. Sometimes our close dharma friends can remind us of the commitments we have to work with our emotions and, in this way, be a strong support for our practice.
TD: How does being in a family relate to being a dharma practitioner?
HHK: In a Buddhist context, we could speak of two types of families: the ordained family of the monastic sangha, and the non-ordained families who are members of householder sanghas. In the West, most practitioners fit into the latter category. From among lay practitioners in dharma communities, a large number are couples who live together. Whatever the current quality of your relationship with your partner is, that quality will definitely have a strong effect on the type of mind that you bring to your dharma practice. Therefore, if you want to have good conditions for practicing the dharma, then first, in my opinion, you have to have good family relationships.
It is always said in the traditional teachings that, in order to practice the dharma, we have to gather the accumulations. Usually, when we employ the language of "gathering the accumulations," we are referring to merit, or positive actions, and to wisdom. However, one can have a broader understanding of what needs to be "gathered." Actually, the most important thing is to gather together all of the conditions that we will need for our practice to flourish. We need to have a harmonious family, good sangha relationships, a good teacher, and many personal attributes from our own side. When these conditions are gathered together, we will naturally accomplish the dharma.
This is simply a reflection of the Buddhist principle of interdependence. For anything to happen, the interdependent connections of causes and conditions must come together. As has been famously said:
All phenomena arise from causes.
The tathagata has taught those causes.
The ceasing of those causes, too,
Has been taught by the great mendicant.
The unique Buddhist approach to interdependence is that, before we attempt to engage in creating or stopping certain results, we first apply ourselves to creating or stopping certain causes. Through this, the results we want to arise will arise, and the results we do not want to arise will not arise. With regard to your question about family and the dharma, it all leads back to the principle of interdependence.
TD: Would you have any advice in particular for American or Western Buddhist parents? We observe that whatever the parents are interested in, the children want to do something different. Of course we also want our children to have as many opportunities as possible to develop wisdom and compassion, and we see that the Buddhadharma is rich in these opportunities. What is the best way to nurture and raise children in harmony with the Buddhadharma?
HHK: In general, there are two ways in which we can be of benefit. We can benefit ourselves and we can benefit others. Whether we can truly bring about benefit for others actually depends upon whether or not we have genuinely benefitted ourselves through hearing, contemplating, and meditating. The first step in benefitting others is relating to those who are close to us, who we continually encounter in our lives. This means our family members, our closest friends, and, especially, if we have them, our children. Our children especially are our very first opportunity to perform the benefit of others. For this reason, I think it is important for us to reflect in a very deep and broad way about how we wish to benefit our children. This process of reflection should not be as simple and brief as just having the thought, "I want things to go well for my child, so I will make sure he or she gets a good education."
In order to truly benefit others, we must do a great deal of reflection on how best to do it. Many factors need to come together: we benefit others through the practice of the six paramitas, all of which are assisted by wisdom and compassion. We cannot simply benefit others only when it is convenient and easy for us. So if we really want to benefit our children and guide them toward a good path, there is a lot of work for us to do in terms of preparing to help them. This involves working with our motivation, engaging in the actual actions of helping our children, and making sure that we follow up on our actions. If we proceed in this way, I think our children will naturally be attracted to the choices of happiness that we provide to them, and I think that they will adopt those choices.
TD: My final two questions are relate to the Vajrayana. As the tradition of Vajrayana takes root more and more in the West, differences in cultural views toward the concept of authority tend to come to the fore. In Tibet, the general societal orientation toward the notion of authority was obviously very different from the modern democratic view of authority. Do you see the teacher-student relationship in Buddhadharma taking on a fundamentally different character in the West because of this?
HHK: In the Vajrayana, the central concept of authority is embodied in the process of abhishekha or empowerment: it is only through receiving empowerment or formalized permission that we may engage in the practices of the Vajrayana. This is the special sense of authority in the Vajrayana, and it is not found in the Mahayana or in the vehicles of the hearers and solitary realizers. This authority of the Vajrayana is not an authority that is merely used for the purpose of controlling others or telling others what to do. Rather, the authority of the Vajrayana is actually a granting of power to the practitioner him or herself. When one receives empowerment, one is permitted to practice the creation and completions stages of the Vajrayana freely. One is also equipped to study the teachings of the tantras. This is a power that one actually gains; it is not the case that one is losing power to someone else.
One may wonder, then, why this type of power is not conferred upon everyone. Shouldn't everyone be allowed to practice the vehicle of secret mantra? The reason for there being a boundary between being permitted and not permitted to practice the Vajrayana is because it is difficult to present the Vajrayana practices in a way in which they can be practiced by everyone - practitioners of all levels of capability. Even if the secret mantra teachings were made accessible to everyone, it would be difficult for many people to understand them in the way they were intended. Furthermore, it is taught that if one practices the Vajrayana without understanding it correctly, there is a danger that one's practice could become harmful to oneself and others.
For this reason, the Vajrayana is concealed from those are not suitable for it, and it is necessary for these mechanisms of inaccessibility to be present. The teachers of Vajrayana have a responsibility to examine their students and determine whether the students have the aptitude for the Vajrayana. If the student has the aptitude, the teacher gives him or her abhishekha and key instructions, along with the authority or power to practice the secret mantra. If the aptitude isn't fully present, then the teacher may decide to introduce some Vajrayana views and practices in a limited way. The teacher may choose to introduce the student to the mandala of secret mantra but refrain from giving empowerments or instructions. Or, he or she may choose to give certain empowerments that are intended for a more general audience. I think there are many degrees of instruction that could be given.
I think that all of us can understand this principle. We all know that there are varying degrees, and different styles, of intelligence and ability. Sometimes we are capable of accepting certain teachings, and sometimes we cannot accept certain teachings, even if we find them to be true. It is like that.
TD: It is taught that, in addition to the three general refuges of the Buddha, dharma, and sangha, we must also rely upon the three roots, the guru, yidam, and dakini, as sources of refuge. I think that most readers of Bodhi will be familiar with the principles of guru and yidam: the guru is the Vajrayana teacher and the yidam is the meditation deity that we invoke in our practice. But perhaps some of us are not as clear about the dakini. What is the essence of relying on the dakini? How do we take refuge in the dakini in our daily lives as Vajrayana practitioners?
HHK: In a general context of refuge, there are the Buddha, dharma, and sangha. And, on the level of sangha, we have (in the foundational vehicles' presentation) the eight types of noble or realized beings. But in terms of ordinary beings composing the sangha, it is traditionally said that, if four fully ordained individuals come together, that assembly can rightly be called a "sangha."
In the secret mantra, however, there are special connotations of sangha, wherein the members of each gender are honored in special ways, with the men sometimes being referred to as "dakas" or "viras" and the women as "viraas" or "dakinis." In ancient times, these were names given to men and women who had achieved high levels of accomplishment in Vajrayana practices. The most accomplished women were known as dakinis. So dakinis are simply a special part of the sangha of secret mantra.
One may wonder, "Why are the dakinis singled out as objects of refuge? Why do we not also say, 'I go for refuge to the dakas'?" The reason why this is the case is because, in ancient days, during the initial spreading of the Vajrayana teachings, there were very special places, such as Jalandhara and Uddiyana, which were considered to be fonts of the secret mantra teachings. It is said that those who were the guardians, keepers, and practitioners of the treasuries of teachings at these great sites appeared mostly in the physical forms of women. Back in those days, being called a "dakini" wasn't necessarily a compliment. In those days, a dakini was known to the common people as a flesh-eating woman, a woman who cast spells - a very, very strange woman. Evil, even!
These women were the keepers of the dharma of secret mantra. Since they were the keepers of the entire tradition, they came to be regarded as very special, and thus treated as sources of refuge. These days, we do not really see such dakinis in the authentic sense. However, it seems that there are various sorts of dakas and dakinis in Vajrayana sanghas. We can also take these individuals as sources of refuge - the yogis and yoginis of secret mantra.
TD: Once again, Your Holiness, thank you so much for giving this time to Bodhi's readers. On behalf of many North American Buddhists, we certainly would like to express our aspiration that you return to North America again, as soon as possible. We will be very delighted to meet you there once more.
HHK: Thank you.
