Bodhi: Hello, Tenam-la. Thank you for talking with us today.
Tenam: Hello.
B: Dzogchen Monastery is the seat of The Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche in Tibet. It is also your monastery. You grew up very near there. Would you please tell us a little bit about it?
T: Dzogchen monastery is in Eastern Tibet, in the region of Derge. It is one of the six main monasteries of the Nyingma lineage. It was first built around 1685, and it has been there since. At that time, several great masters, all Nyingma Rinpoches—Dzogchen Pema Rigzin, Ponlop Namkha Osel, Shalham Rabjampa and the Rigdzin Nyima Drakpa—came from central Tibet to that region looking for a place to build a monastery. They found a large rock with Guru Rinpoche’s footprint on it, which was very auspicious. Near there, they stopped to make a tea offering. When they offered the tea, a crow took the offering.
DPR: They made a fire to make a tea offering for the Mahakala shrine, and a crow took the tea offering and dropped it on the spot where the monastery is built now.
B: And that is seen as auspicious?
DPR: As a prediction, from our Protector.
T: Then all of the Rinpoches thought that they should build the monastery in that area. They stayed there in retreat for a few years before beginning to build it. The first story I will tell you, the phowa story, happens during this time.
B: It happens before the monastery is actually built?
T: Yes. The phowa story took place when all of the Rinpoches were in retreat. Near their retreat area, one old woman lived alone in a cave. She had several goats. Every day she would come and offer the Rinpoches goat milk. Then one day, she didn’t come. Dzogchen Rinpoche said, “Rabjam Rinpoche, go to the cave to see if the old lady has died. If she is dead, do phowa for her.” After Rabjam Rinpoche left, Dzogchen Rinpoche took the old lady’s namshe (consciousness) and put it under his bowl.
DPR: Dzogchen Rinpoche knew that she had died. He was able to “catch” her consciousness, and he put it inside his cup, which he turned upside down. She was trapped in that.
T: Meanwhile, Rabjam Rinpoche had gone to check on the old lady to see if she had died. He found her body and tried to do the phowa practice for her but he couldn’t find her consciousness. So, he returned to their retreat and told Dzogchen Rinpoche, “I can’t do the phowa because her consciousness is trapped under a big snow mountain.” (laughs) Next, Dzogchen Rinpoche sent Rigdzin Nyima Drakpa to the body and told him to do the phowa for the old lady. Rigdzin Nyima Drakpa went to the cave and tried to do the phowa. When he was doing this, back at the retreat, Dzogchen Rinpoche noticed the cup move.
DPR: What Dzogchen Rinpoche is doing is testing them—testing their power. When Rigdzin Nyima Drakpa did the phowa, Dzogchen Rinpoche observed that the bowl was shaking, trembling. He was getting a little closer.
T: Then Dzogchen Rinpoche put a vajra on top of the cup.
B: Ah, he’s making it harder.
T: When Rigdzin Nyima Drakpa Rinpoche came back, he told Dzogchen Rinpoche almost the same thing, “Her consciousness is under a big snow mountain, but I almost succeeded.”
DPR: He couldn’t quite do it and he knew it when he saw the big vajra right on top of the snow mountain.
B: He saw the vajra?
DPR: Um hum. (To Tenam) And then?
T: Finally, he sent Ponlop Rinpoche to do the phowa. So, Ponlop Rinpoche went next. When he did the phowa, both the cup and the vajra were thrown off.
DPR: The bowl lifted.
T: When Ponlop Rinpoche returned, Dzogchen Rinpoche said, “This is very good tendrel. This shows that the whole succession of Ponlop Rinpoche incarnations will have special phowa siddhis, very powerful.” All of these Rinpoches’ achievements in practice were no different, but at that time, the First Ponlop Rinpoche manifested his special power of phowa for the benefit of sentient beings.
B: Through this “test,” Dzogchen Rinpoche saw that the lineage of the Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoches would have special abilities in phowa?
T: Yes, that’s what they say in Tibet. For many years, the relatives of the local people who had died would come to our monasteries and ask for Ponlop Rinpoche to perform phowa.
B: Maybe you could tell us a little bit about these stories in general. Is there one person in the monastery who remembers the stories and tells them? Or do many people know the stories and tell them?
T: Many people know them. Usually, the old monks talk together telling stories about what happened before. They talked and I listened.
B: Do the villagers know them too? Are these very famous stories in the area?
T: Yes and there are many different aspects of Ponlop Rinpoche’s activities that are famous among the people.
B: Can you tell us another story?
T: There is another story about the handprint of the First Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche. This story happened after the First Dzogchen Rinpoche passed away. At that time, the First Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche was living near our monastery, by a hot water spring. After Dzogchen Rinpoche died, Ponlop Rinpoche was very sad. Sometime during that period, the King of Derge sent a messenger to Dzogchen Monastery. This man brought a letter to Ponlop Rinpoche from the King. The letter was an order saying that Ponlop Rinpoche must come to Derge. At that time Ponlop Rinpoche was very upset because Dzogchen Rinpoche had passed away. He was probably doing pujas, and the King’s letter interrupted him. He picked up a stone like this (ed.: shows the stone held in the palm of the hand with the fingers wrapped around). Holding it in this way, he left his whole handprint on the stone. Then Ponlop Rinpoche said, “Give this to the King of Derge.”
B: He gave the stone with his handprint to the King’s messenger?
T: Yes. When Rinpoche left his handprint on the stone, it looked like the tormas we usually make from tsampa for ghost offerings (ed.: demonstrates the shaping of a torma with his hands). These are offered to ghosts. Ponlop Rinpoche took the stone, and shaped it like that with his hand. “Give this give to the King of Derge.” (laughs) The messenger was very scared. He didn’t know what to do. He thought, “How can I give this to the King of Derge? If I give him this, he will be very upset. If I don’t, then Rinpoche may be upset. So, in the end, he gave it to the King. When the King of Derge saw the rock with Rinpoche’s handprint, instead of being angry, he said, “Oh, this is a very great blessing!” He put the rock on his shrine. This rock was still there in the King’s palace until 1959. But now I think it’s been destroyed.
B: No one knows where it is anymore?
T: No.
B: Please go on with your stories.
T: There’s a very nice story about how the First Ponlop Rinpoche recognized the Second Dzogchen Rinpoche. After the First Dzogchen Rinpoche passed away, the First Ponlop Rinpoche knew where Dzogchen Rinpoche would be reborn. In order to find him, he left the monastery alone, without attendants. He went on his own and was gone for three or four years.
B: He was gone that long?
T: Yes. People along the way didn’t know who Ponlop Rinpoche was because he was disguised as an ordinary poor man. He went to Amdo first and traveled all through that area. Then he went to Mongolia for two or three years, disguised as a shepherd. In Mongolia, he found the family of the Second Dzogchen Rinpoche. This family was a large, noble family and Ponlop Rinpoche looked like a simple poor man. He knew that Dzogchen Rinpoche had been born into their family. But how was he to get him? So, for a few years he worked as a shepherd, staying close to Dzogchen Rinpoche. But he couldn’t find a way to get him out. Then one day, he took Dzogchen Rinpoche and ran away.
B: He kidnapped Dzogchen Rinpoche! (laughs)
T: They ran away. Ponlop Rinpoche and Dzogchen Rinpoche were on foot. The Mongolians were riding horses. They chased them! But they couldn’t catch them!
B: He never told this family that he was Rinpoche and their son was a Rinpoche? Did Dzogchen Rinpoche know who he was?
T: He never said, “I am Rinpoche.” I do not know. They returned to Dzogchen Monastery, and later Ponlop Rinpoche brought the whole family and all of their relatives to the monastery. Even today, we have descendants of this Mongolian family in the region of Dzogchen. For many generations, we have all been one family. I met one of these relatives when I was in Nepal.
B: Are there any other stories that you would like to tell us?
T: There is another important story that begins with the First Dzogchen Ponlop Rinpoche. He began a tradition that was followed thereafter by all of the Ponlop Rinpoche incarnations. He had many stones gathered and carved with the mantra “Om Mani Padme Hum.” Then he had these stones arranged into a pile. So many mani stones were carved that the pile was huge. (Ed.: each stone carved with the mantra is called a mani stone) When the local people would make offerings—of money or a horse or a yak—a lot of this was spent on adding mani stones to the mani pile. We called this “Ponlop mani.”
B: It sounds like “Ponlop money.”
T: Noooo.
B: Where is this located?
T: Between Shechen and Dzogchen Monastery.
B: Is it still there?
T: A little bit. But the Chinese took most of it away to build bridges and highways.
B: So they were just lost?
T: The people in the villages tried to put some of them back.
B: We thank you, Tenam-la for sharing these wonderful stories with us. This is indeed part of the oral tradition in Buddhism.
T: Yes, I heard all these stories from Khenpo Dechen Namdrol, Lama Paljor, Tulku Pegyal and Konchok Tsultrim, an old monk at Dzogchen monastery. Konchok Tsultrim was not too old but he passed away when I came to India.